at some cities, some urban areas where there are large numbers of gun deaths, it's not because of mental illness. it's because of the drug trade, the drug business, of course, and crime. >> isn't there a part of it that people who are witnessing and dealing with those environments and who are living through these shootings, then there is an issue with mental illness. a kid growing up in that environment -- >> it's traumatic. it's traumatic. it's a tough thing for any kid. there was a time at our church where on new year's eve, when we had our new year's eve celebration, as soon as the clock turned 12:00, we knew it was 12:00 because we could hear the gunfire outside our church. that hasn't happened in recent years. but that's a frightening thing to know that on new year's eve, you might get hit by a stray bullet. >> and it happens. it happens. but i also think, you know, in thinking about our administrative assistant we had whose son was shot and killed on easter sunday. he came out on the porch to talk to another kid, shot him in front of his father. it was the most awful thing,